Day of Tolerance - Full Logs

[Tamur Theorabies]

EVE System > Channel MOTD: A large lecture hall on the Center of Advanced Studies station in Lisbaetanne is half-full. The audience mainly consists of elderly people. Some of them are discussing in a low voice, some of them are yawning. Near the entrance there are posters with text

"Federation is a mosaic of different cultures, tastes, colors and sentiments. Day of Tolerance is an event whose purpose is to promote the cause of harmonious co-existence, heal prejudices and misconceptions, and allow everyone a chance to learn something new about one's fellow bystander. Through understanding and cooperation we can all become richer."

Tamur Theorabies > walks in the Auditorium, checking the equipment.
Tamur Theorabies > "Does this work?"
Maria Crases > is sitting in the back reading some notes, she looks up. "Yes sir"
Tamur Theorabies > "Ah, good morning, Ms. Crases. How are you doing? Nervous?"
Maria Crases > very but I think I'll be okay
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > I'm sure you will. I just make a few short remarks and then the podium is all yours.
Maria Crases > I guess you should make an announcement in summit and new eden assembly then?
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > Yes indeed. I almost forgot. Thank you Maria.
ichkowa san > walks in looking rather out of place and looking visibly nervous
X4ver > Ave o/
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > Welcome everyone.
Maria Crases > Maria is sitting down in the far front looking over some notes and talking to Kithrus on the comm. They are speaking in Khanid
ichkowa san > takes a seat close to maria and smiles at here and bows his head
Maria Crases > says her goodbyes to Kithrus and smiles up at ichkowa
Literia > stands in the back of the room, with her hands down by her side
Victoria Valadeus > takes a seat in the audience
Tamur Theorabies > stands near the podium. > We will start the program in five minutes.
Literia > nods to Victoria and smiles comforting to Maria
ichkowa san > calls noisily in hidiously accented khanid to maria > good luck maria
Sapphire Mourningstar > takes a seat next to Vic, "hi"
Maria Crases > thanks
Victoria Valadeus > smiles to Sapphire
Literia > walks over to the Valadeus' and speaks softly "May I join you Ladies?"
Sapphire Mourningstar > nods.
Victoria Valadeus > Certainly.
Mikael Angelo > walks into the lecture hall, he looks around before leaning on the wall.
ichkowa san > looks around the crowd and spots the valadeus' and lit and waves
Literia > bows her head slightly "Thank you." As she slips into a chair beside them
Jade Constantine > takes a seat with a smile as she sees many of the other participants "good afternoon everyone"
Victoria Valadeus > waves to Itchy
Literia > looks around and Waves to Mikael, as she hears a woman speak she turns her head and nods once to the woman.
Mikael Angelo > smiles and returns the wave to Literia and pulls out his datapad, looking at a message.
Tamur Theorabies > steps behind the podium and coughs.
Tamur Theorabies > Ladies and gentlemen, capsuleers and commoners,
Tamur Theorabies > thank you for taking part in this important conference, the very first intergalactic Day of Tolerance.
Tamur Theorabies > Our venue, the auditorium here on the lovely Lisbaetanne Center for Advanced Studies station will be open 'til 04AM.
Tamur Theorabies > Between the lectures and presentations we will have panel discussions between the capsuleers attendants...
Literia > pulls out her datapad quietly from her vest and types on it
Tamur Theorabies > I would kindly ask the audience without capsuleer impants not to disturb the panel discussions.
Tamur Theorabies > Now, why do I say this conference is so important?
Tamur Theorabies > That is because New Eden is in need of harmony and unity.
Tamur Theorabies > Maybe today we can advance these goals with open, frank discussion as our tool.
Graelyn > enters
Tamur Theorabies > nods to Graelyn and continues. > Through our joint efforts we may be able to start a new era our ancestors only dreamed of.
Tamur Theorabies > Today our goal is to engage in some advanced and courageous intellectual pursuits.
Tamur Theorabies > We are going to put an end to prejudice and select the path of far-sightedness instead!
Tamur Theorabies > We have all much in common and we just need to focus on that. Forget the superficial differences!
Mikael Angelo > looks down at his datapad and smiles, tapping a message into it.
Tamur Theorabies > looks at Mr Angelo. > I have a good feeling about this day..
Tamur Theorabies > I hope this event will catalyse a reaction between peace and reason
Tamur Theorabies > build lasting friendships and destroy misunderstandings... in the Federation and in the whole New Eden!
ichkowa san > opens a tattered black notebook and a fineliner pen and begins writing with a warm smile on his face
Jade Constantine > looking around the participants and smiling at the words (not unkindly at all) and delivering some polite applause
Tamur Theorabies > makes a warm smile. > Our first speaker is a lady who has seen the culture, traditions and life in Amarr Empire from many angles.
Literia > smiles as she looks down at her datapad and then quickly back up
Mikael Angelo > looks up and nods to Tamur. He walks over and sits next to Literia, nodding and smiling at everybody. He slips his datapad back into his jacket as he looks at the podium.
Tamur Theorabies > She is the person who knows the whole story, the challenges and the little known aspects.
Tamur Theorabies > Please join me in welcoming Ms Maria Crases.
Tamur Theorabies > applauds.
Graelyn > has a seat near the back, after clapping a bit
Literia > applauds
Victoria Valadeus > frowns a little bit claps along
ichkowa san > loudly applauds and shouts good luck
Sapphire Mourningstar > claps
Maria Crases > stands and walks over
Jade Constantine > applauds again politely
Mikael Angelo > claps a bit before leaning back in his chair.
Maria Crases > she turns and bows putting her data pad into her pocket and faces everyone.
Literia > smiles as Mikael, sits next to her and then looks to Maria with a comforting smile
Maria Crases > Good day to you all and thank you for coming.
Maria Crases > When I was asked to come here I wondered what my one voice would do
Maria Crases > But now at this moment it feels like that voice is the thunder itself. All these people here means something
Maria Crases > The cluster is changing, in time hopefully we can all be at peace with each other and I hope to be that first drop of water in all your hearts that will extinguish the fire of hate
Maria Crases > Over the last three months since I have poked my head into the stars I have seen so much hate but so much more love. *shes nods to some of her friends but looks right at Literia.* And some people have given me a family more then I could have dreamed for
Maria Crases > pans here eyes to everyone
Literia > smiles brightly as she looks to Maria with pride
Maria Crases > I feel more then ever like a child of the stars. I was born gallente, raised amarr but welcome with the matari. My holder is or was Khanid and I learned so much of the caldai.
Maria Crases > in the three months I have seen and felt some much but its only a fraction of what there is too see
Maria Crases > I was asked to come here but now I see more then ever that this is a rare destiny being offered all of us
Jade Constantine > meeting Maria's eyes directly as if trying to assertain the nature of the soul within past those words given - if this is simply the propaganda of the empire or the birth of something new
Tamur Theorabies > sits on a first row seat, nods.
Graelyn > listens, face not quite readable
Literia > watches Jade carefully as her eye's flicker back to Maria, on the edge of her seat.
Maria Crases > My ex holder taught me the faith but he also told me I need to listen to that little voice in my heart
Maria Crases > when I see us all fighting each other I ache a little inside. We are all cut from the same cloth we have so much to learn from each other
ichkowa san > looks up to Maria his eyes trying to meet hers smiling warmly holding a small pendant in his hand
Maria Crases > The Matari are proud and relentless warriors with a spirit I can't begin to mesure. The caldari are cunning and wise, with tactics and tricks some of us have never dreamed. The gallenteans are full of art and song that they give to the cluster....
Maria Crases > And lastly the Amarr the elder race that wants to teach
Maria Crases > We have so much we can give each other
Maria Crases > And I hope that maybe after today when you look at the face of the person beside you you see what they can offer you as a friend then as the race your at war with
Maria Crases > bows. "Thank you everyone."
ichkowa san > stands and claps loudly
Tamur Theorabies > stands up and applauds.
Victoria Valadeus > claps
Maria Crases > starts blushing as she scampers to her seat.
Literia > stands up and claps
Jade Constantine > applauds the speech warmly from her seat and looks with curiousity at the reactions of the crowd
Furb Killer > applaudes
Mikael Angelo > smiles and claps.
Graelyn > remains seated, clapping a bit slowly
Sapphire Mourningstar > claps
Karmilla Strife > smiles and claps politely.
Literia > sits back down blushing
ichkowa san > sits back down still clapping before blushing and stopping feeling somehwat silly
Mikael Angelo > looks over at Literia and chuckles a bit.
Literia > gives Mikael a curious but rather innocent look and then quickly turns her eyes back to the front
Tamur Theorabies > "Thank you for your excellent speech, Ms Crases"
Tamur Theorabies > smiles > It truly sets the tone for this event.
Maria Crases > smiles but is quite red
ichkowa san > grins at maria warmly and bows his head to her
Literia > smiles full of pride at Maria still blushing from her own folly
Tamur Theorabies > looks at Graelyn > We all have our strengths, and together we can achieve things we can only dream of as isolated individuals.
Graelyn > sighs
Jade Constantine > why do you sigh monsieur Graelyn? - it seems a fair point
Kikia Truzhari > slips in, slightly out of breath
Graelyn > I had hoped to hear less of why and more of how. This is a sermon thus far, and I get my fill of those. I'll wait for more, however.
Graelyn > Please, continue.
Victoria Valadeus > goes "Mm." in agreement
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > I'm sure we are getting there.
Graelyn > nods slightly at the comment, then looks on passively
Jade Constantine > the "hows" are often very simple indeed in truth, but getting the mind and heart to the right place to accept that simplicity is where the difficulty most often lays
Tamur Theorabies > The warfare and disagreements have lasted so long that I suppose we can afford a little patience.
Kikia Truzhari > walks over to everyone, waving a quiet hello.
Victoria Valadeus > waves to Kikia, inviting her to sit
ichkowa san > i think thats why we are here to dsiscuss a method of aiding in tolerance and acceptance
Tamur Theorabies > looks at Ms Constantine > Getting people around the same negotiation table is often highly difficult.
Graelyn > looks at Jade "I disagree completely."
Sapphire Mourningstar > whipsers > hey Kiki.
Graelyn > The devil is in the details and menthods, not in the need for action.
Jade Constantine > laughs at Graeyln's comment "somehow I am not surprised"
Kikia Truzhari > sits down near Sapphire and Victoria, she smiles and whispers a greeting.
Jade Constantine > but really, some issues can be extremely simple when you cut down to the meat of the disagreement
Graelyn > The meat is often a wall.
Jade Constantine > walls exist to be broken down
Literia > nods politely to Kiki as she watches the exchange between Jade and Graelyn
Jade Constantine > its not in our nature to be restrained by them
Graelyn > I would not want to live in an abode of your design then.
Graelyn > Would get drafty.....
Jade Constantine > grins "touché"
Mikael Angelo > grins and chuckles at the exchange.
Maria Crases > giggles
Kikia Truzhari > You don't need to break down all the walls, tolerance isn't acceptance, its tolerance.
Literia > The barrier exists because we were taught to hate, we were taught to mistrust. We were taught to blame the few on the whole. People have long forget, that one or a few dont make up a race.
ichkowa san > then the answer would be education to counter this
Jade Constantine > you are speaking a lot of sense there Literia
Literia > But in our education system we teach our children to hate.
ichkowa san > then change that
Graelyn > That much is true, on all sides.
Karmilla Strife > listens to Literia thoughtfully.
Victoria Valadeus > I can tolerate near most anyone, if they're not insulting me or shooting me.
Kikia Truzhari > nods "You don't have to like someone, or befriend them, to tolerate them."
Tamur Theorabies > nods to mr Ichkowa > Education has a highly mportant role in this.
ichkowa san > it of course isn't the only part to the puzzle though
Literia > There is no right here, so many wrongs are done on both sides on all sides of a war that people are too blinded with their own hate that their forefathers taught then, they think that is right, its good.
ichkowa san > mm theres not too much use teaching acceptance or tolerance while continuing these foolish wats with no end here
Literia > My children dont go to public schools because I wish to teach them beyond intolerance and hatred.
Tamur Theorabies > Many hate structures are ingrained into our societal building blocks.
ichkowa san > nods > no where are these more bvious then on caldari prime
Maria Crases > Well part of the reason I came here was the topic of the Amarr building temples and teaching the faith but that the locals of those places mainly the gallenteans reacted violently. I found the whole thing very confusing because instead of 'reclaiming'...
Maria Crases > with slaver fleets and ships they were doing it peacefully
Graelyn > sits back and listens to the younger capsuleer generation, seemingly looking for something......
ichkowa san > its the infringement of a religion into gallentean society i think
Jade Constantine > often the hate structures serve a purpose for the social elite and ruling castes of course m. Theorabies ... we capsuleers occupy a privileged position from which to see these things - and that makes our tendency to continue such patterns all the ....
Maria Crases > The one thing everyone wanted from the start but people still react poorly
Jade Constantine > more disappointing
ichkowa san > its very secular these days, religion such as the amarrian faith that has such ridgid rules and structure is frowned upon
Literia > People have a right to choose what they believe in, whether it be God, Godess, Spirits or the dog down the street. It is Human Nature to destroy or tear down what we dont understand ourselves
Maria Crases > Thats true
ichkowa san > we however must follow the jovian path to change that
ichkowa san > we do not want our children to suffer as they do
Graelyn > coughs "Ah, no."
Tamur Theorabies > raises eyebrows
Literia > We by nature are fearful creatures, if those do not conform to our ideals they are automatically branded different, something to be fixed.
Victoria Valadeus > The jovian path?
Merdaneth > Ms. Literia, you are making a lot of assumption and stating them as universal truths
ichkowa san > they removed there instincts, there fear of others there agression
Maria Crases > The Jove? they are dying because they did things no man should do. I'm not sure thats the best example
Literia > Sir, it is what I have seen.
Merdaneth > I agree, that was my point.
Graelyn > turns around to see Merdaneth, and nods smiling in greeting.
Merdaneth > It is what you have seen, and as such a valuable opinion, but a opinion nonetheless.
Tamur Theorabies > nods politely to Merdaneth.
Literia > I agree with you whole heartedly, and I am just a simple little voice.
Maria Crases > I like your voice Lit, theres wisdom there.
ichkowa san > nods
Merdaneth > However, in the spirit of this initiative I'll try not to argue with you or anyone about the specific, but just listen to more of your opinions.
Maria Crases > looks at the time. "I'm sorry I have to go everyone but planetside issue calls me. I will be back soon."
Maria Crases > gets up and walks out.
ichkowa san > good bye maria
Graelyn > So long.
Literia > raises her hands sits back in to her chair and puts her hands in her lap
Merdaneth > Sister Crases
Merdaneth > nods
Jade Constantine > good afternoon Merdaneth, has been a while since we met
Literia > looks down at her hands in her lap silently
Merdaneth > anarchist Constantine
Merdaneth > nods again
Mikael Angelo > folds his arms, listening to the conversation before speaking. "I personally find that we as capsuleers cannot understand the thoughts and emotions of the common citizen. Yes, we are human and have everything a normal human has. Not to sound -
Jade Constantine > "anarchist" indeed, m. Merdaneth *smiles*
Merdaneth > I would like to pose a question to those assembled here, in the interest of understanding different opinions better.
Mikael Angelo > - like an elitest capsuleer, but we do transend normal human boundaries. Capsuleers are a nation all to their own. We can go much farther and see much more than a normal person could."
Literia > frowns slightly as she mumbles quietly to herself, looking into her hands.
ichkowa san > but at the same time we can understand more then the average person through this, we can see first hand both the evils and good sof the universe
Mikael Angelo > looks over at Literia and nudges her gently with his elbow, giving her a smile.
Graelyn > We transcend those boundaries as we abandon our humanity.
Merdaneth > How do you decide when the line between tolerance and action should be crossed? How do you decide when enough is enough?
Graelyn > Better? Worse? On different days I feel either to be true.
ichkowa san > when people are being harmed because of it
Literia > looks at Mikael slightly and shrugs a she keeps silent
Nor Tzestu > What degree of harm? Many take offense of even perceived slights.
ichkowa san > physical quantifiable pain
Graelyn > If I may address the capsuleer issue:
Nor Tzestu > Economic harm? Is the loss of isk worth bloodshed?
ichkowa san > no bodily harm
Jade Constantine > there is one answer to your question I think m. Ichkowa - we can perhaps take a longer view than planetsiders - look into the deeper future with the expectation (and faith) we might live to see it
Graelyn > We don't see it the same way normal people do. We don't have the same priorities.
Nor Tzestu > nods in agreement with Capsuleer constantine
Merdaneth > So, would you tolerate a robber entering your house and stealing your food mr. Ichokowa San? That is an interesting position to take?
Graelyn > The long view does not help the farmer feeding his family.
Graelyn > But that is a rich v poor argument.
Merdaneth > Would you tolerate parents denying physical affection to their children?
Nor Tzestu > Of course not brother, but the long view must be balanced with the present,
ichkowa san > i would not in fact i'd give him a nice square punch ion the head with my fist *raises a metallic arm*
Literia > You give a man to fish you feed him for a day, you teach a man to fish you feed him for a life time.
ichkowa san > or he could beat you with it for more fish
Jade Constantine > I disagree Graleyn, if the long view was to involve technological investment that would ultimately help the farmer and all his kind to a better life - surely that has impact?
Tamur Theorabies > steps forward and approaches the podium.
Nor Tzestu > I find this talk of a disconnect with the average person an excuse. And a poor one at that.
Literia > throws her hands up and looks around to gather her datapad, as she slips it into her pocket almost getting ready to leave
Graelyn > Your 'if' is silly.
Tamur Theorabies > Dear ladies and gentlemen,
Graelyn > pipes down
Tamur Theorabies > Our next speaker is known for freedom fighting..
Merdaneth > I agree, I'll not mix myself in that discussion. To consider ourselves far removed from non-capsuleers is not something I believe in at all.
Tamur Theorabies > Our next speaker has recently made an appearance in Placid region, which has resulted lots of discussion and exchange of ideas.
Tamur Theorabies > Please join me in welcoming Ms Jade Costantine!
ichkowa san > claps loudly
Victoria Valadeus > claps
Jade Constantine > stands to m. Theorabies introduction and comes to approach the podium with a smile "thank you very much for a gratious introduction there sir"
Mikael Angelo > applauds.
Literia > claps
Karmilla Strife > claps politely.
Jade Constantine > and thank you to everyone for coming, it is quite heart-warming to be sure!
Jade Constantine > looks out at the audience and takes a breath to begin her presentation
Jade Constantine > well then
Jade Constantine > The word tolerance is so often an ironically contentious one. What is it to be tolerant of difference? Is it weakness? Is it contrition?
Jade Constantine > Or is it to be open-minded and bold in one s own worldview and comfortable with the notion that others might believe and desire different objectives and cultural values.
Jade Constantine > One has one to see the debates sparked by the announcement of an event like this to see the accusations of intolerance and closed-minded ignorance flying back and forth in a circus of internal feedback.
Jade Constantine > tolerance itself becomes a target - something to be fought over
Jade Constantine > who is the most tolerant
Jade Constantine > who is the least
Jade Constantine > its all rather amusing in a dark kind of way
Jade Constantine > and there are questions that must be asked
Jade Constantine > Is it right to be tolerant of a religion that enslaves?
Jade Constantine > Is it right to be tolerant of violent insurgency?
Jade Constantine > Is it right to be tolerant of different opinions?
Victoria Valadeus > frowns
Jade Constantine > Is it right to be tolerant of different customs?
Jade Constantine > shrugs and rolls her eyes skywards
Jade Constantine > The truth is this aspect of debate is doomed to failure before it can begin. Nobody would or should agree universally what should be tolerated because such intellectual imperialism is hilariously intolerant by its nature.
Jade Constantine > One cannot enforce or mandate tolerance.
Jade Constantine > One cannot legislate the way to an open society even.
Jade Constantine > the act of doing so is deeply intolerant of the free notions amongst those legislated
Jade Constantine > So how can it be achieved? How can this mythical state of open-minded coexistence between ideals and aspiration be realized in New Eden, in capsuleer or planetside society?
Jade Constantine > well
Jade Constantine > I believe that Gallente Culture has a part of the answer to this question and that historically the best approach to tolerance is through prosperity
Jade Constantine > Intolerance breeds in an environment of privation and economic dependence. Fear for livelihood, bitter struggle for existence, the notion that one s life is a zero sum game of take or lose and the devil will take the hindmost.
Victoria Valadeus > sighs gently and frowns more
Jade Constantine > The concept (beloved of empires) that there is no room for everyone to succeed, that we must fear and loathe the stranger, that the unknown will take our possessions and our land if we do not drive it out with hate and reactionary violence.
Literia > nods with Victoria and furrows her brow.
Jade Constantine > I hope you will bare with me and have patience to see where I go with this argument friends
Jade Constantine > Prosperity and economic success is the antidote to intolerance and for hundreds of years the politicians of the Gallente Federation traded successfully on the notion there was wealth enough for all to share in their success and the population believed.
Jade Constantine > A successful man is not by nature an intolerant one.
Jade Constantine > A wealthy society is rarely hidebound by religious dogma but allows individual belief as it chooses.
Jade Constantine > (And of course; priesthood losing power is not itself a reflection that faith or spirituality is void)
Jade Constantine > I believe there is an important place in our existence for both faith and spirituality where it enriches culture and human interactions
Jade Constantine > but beyond this
Jade Constantine > I believe that free enterprise and unrestrained commerce is the antidote to the fear that breeds ignorance and intolerance. I have fought eight years as Free Captain in Jericho Fraction for this essential message.
Jade Constantine > But my war did not begin with weaponry in space.
Jade Constantine > I began as a trader in robotics in Essence and Domain and there was a reason for this choice. Back then we were often told by agents of the Amarrian Empire that the breadbasket worlds needed slave-labour to function economically.
Jade Constantine > But in Khanid space the holders were beginning to phase out the plantations with robotic machinery and use technological solutions to answer the needs of their kingdom. It would perhaps have been easy to look at blockages and violence and pursue ...
Jade Constantine > ... well lets say more direct and violent measures
Jade Constantine > Yet supplying these progressive holders with the equipment they needed to drag their worlds out of the medieval practice of mainstream Amarrian planetary development was an alternative. And I think a good one.
Jade Constantine > in essence both sides were tolerant
Jade Constantine > we of the khanid holders religion, they of our foreign ways and technology - yet both profited from the arrangement
Jade Constantine > and so did those no longer levied to field slavery
Jade Constantine > We fulfilled many of these contracts: robotics (for farm machinery), plutonium (for advanced power plants), medicines and drugs (to improve quality of life) and yes, the occasional advanced side-arms and covert equipment for rebels to strike tyrants ...
Jade Constantine > Everyone has a right to resist after all!
Jade Constantine > but here is the point I want to drive home
Jade Constantine > Free Trade has an effect on humanity in the broad stroke. The liberating technology of the most enlightened cultures will spread to shine a light on the darkest.
Jade Constantine > . Access to information is key; acquisition of technology provides a way to climb out of the despond of extremism.
Jade Constantine > and yes
Jade Constantine > even I will admit
Jade Constantine > that sometimes the spirituality of those darkest cultures
Jade Constantine > can give something back
Graelyn > rolls his eyes at 'darkest cultures'
Jade Constantine > free exchange and free trade
Jade Constantine > And we capsuleers were in an ideal place to demonstrate how far we had transcended the imperialist road-block delusions of our predecessors to make it happen
Literia > frowns deeper
Jade Constantine > As traders we believed that neutrals and unknowns were simply potential friends and business partners we hadn t met yet.
Jade Constantine > We saw the advantage in competition on routes, we saw many worlds enriched and enhanced by the supplies the posthuman traders were bringing in.
Jade Constantine > On the worlds below the population looked to the stars and saw liberation not in bloodshed and pyre-smoke but in the descending lights of the trading-ships bringing tools and technology and prosperity.
Jade Constantine > The prosperous are too busy living their lives and planning for the future to spend wasted effort sneering at those who are different.
Jade Constantine > pauses in breath and looks around the room measuring the many frowns and disapproving looks
Jade Constantine > So why I wonder, has NRDS ideology and free-commerce become such a rare commodity itself in these recent times amongst Capsuleers. Why are we so rarely tolerant of neutrality and those we do not know?
Jade Constantine > Eight years ago I told New Eden there was a mind-virus at work amongst the civilizations and cultures that was intent on stabilizing and ensuring the status quo. Distrust the different, reject the stranger, hold on to what you have!
Jade Constantine > I saw evidence that the empire and federation, the state and republic all had signs of programmed development ...
Jade Constantine > that politicians and prelates and power-structures had more to lose from universal prosperity and a golden age of Diaspora than the continuance of war and hatred and distrust and fearing all the shadows of the night.
Jade Constantine > And this virus has transferred to infect the capsuleer population.
Jade Constantine > Today the notions of NRDS and free-commerce are pitifully-fragile amongst the independents of the frontier while capsuleer-agents of the empires continue as proxies fighting mindless wars over automated beacons across low-security space.
Jade Constantine > Thousands of vessels are annihilated every day in New Eden yet nothing really changes. The mind-virus infects our thoughts and aspirations and teaches us to run-in-place; fight harder, hate more intensely, distrust all strangers ...
Jade Constantine > (because otherwise we might question why we are fighting at all).
Jade Constantine > Eight years ago I explored Fountain; I flew beyond Venal to the unnamed stars at the extents of our reach. I sent my ship to the borders of Delve and Querius and everywhere was possibility and the fertile stuff of dreams.
Jade Constantine > I look at the frontier now and I see the past of empires, stumbling territorialist hatred, sullen-eyed drones fighting for their lords and masters, dream of flight betrayed by notions of fear and jealous privation.
Jade Constantine > And Somewhere, somehow, this all has to change.
Jade Constantine > I am a revolutionary and a terrorist. I have killed a multitude of foes across more star-systems than I can remember.
Jade Constantine > I have died and been reborn a score of times and returned to the fight unblemished in pursuit of simple prosperity and freedom to explore.
Jade Constantine > But I tell you this, I have never known in war-accomplishment the achievement of building and trade in commerce.
Jade Constantine > Destruction is never as beautiful as building a vision in collaborative agreement between free individuals united in ambition.
Jade Constantine > Of course:
Jade Constantine > One might call me a hypocrite since I m clearly intolerant of those who would claim a star-system their personal hegemony
Jade Constantine > and I m definitely intolerant of systems of belief that believe in chaining sentient minds as beasts of burden and to that I must shrug again and admit...
Jade Constantine > Fine then, I am simply human. And nothing in life has any business flirting with perfection.
Jade Constantine > But I do believe in a better future for us all. Capsuleer and baseline, starfarer and planetborn.
Jade Constantine > I have seen humanity go further and deeper to the unknown space beyond our little empires and learn wonders writ large on the tapestry of stars.
Jade Constantine > I have seen us build civilization in the darkness and work miracles in the void.
Jade Constantine > I have seen populations liberated from bondage and freed by heroes.
Jade Constantine > I have seen the ships carrying tools for people to build their own future.
Jade Constantine > I have made ships with my own hands and vision.I have seen the future prosperity can bring us.
Jade Constantine > and I promise you all today
Jade Constantine > I want this more than anything
Jade Constantine > And ask yourselves now
Jade Constantine > Whatever faith or belief-system or outlook or ambition in the head or heart or soul can you really stand on a mountainside at night looking up to the endless bright and gleaming heavens
Jade Constantine > and not want to touch those motes of starlight and bathe in the heat of distant suns?
Jade Constantine > One day we will do it. Together, unafraid, unchained by ignorance, careless of convention, mindless of tradition or religious observance
Jade Constantine > because whatever faith or creed exists, know well, we are blessed by destiny in the random triumph of our existence.
Jade Constantine > Let us seek prosperity and know tolerance of all our better dreams.
Jade Constantine > looking at the audience and letting her voice drop a little at the conclusion of her thoughts ...
Jade Constantine > Perhaps we can learn from our mistakes. After all, we have eternity to try.
Jade Constantine > smiles at m. Theorabies and bows
Tamur Theorabies > stands up and applauds. > Thank you Ms Constatine!
Mikael Angelo > applauds loudly as Jade finishes
Jade Constantine > turns back to the audience "thank you for listening to what I had to say"
Tamur Theorabies > Very interesting initiatives and they will most likely spark more ideas among the audience.
Jade Constantine > steps down from the podium and returns to her seat looking with curiosity at the variety of opinions reflected in the eyes there
Graelyn > applauds slowly and politely
Kybernetes Moros > claps very, very slowly.
Literia > claps softly and politely
Sahaquiel Faust > shakes himself awake.
Graelyn > seems deep in thought
that randomguy Uitoh > i believe in an individualist free society that is not ruled by the will of the super corps , a society where the individual determines how far he or she wishes to go. not a society where your standings determine how much you can achieve.
Jade Constantine > bravo!
Graelyn > The individual will always determine that they deserve everything. Those with the means will make sure they actually get it. Universal prosperity is not usually the result in either case.
Jade Constantine > I am quite happy to answer any questions you all might have by the way! Don't all clam up on the Amarrian benches now *grins*
Sahaquiel Faust > gets a malicious grin
Sahaquiel Faust > raises his hand and waits politely.
Jade Constantine > looks across to m. Faust ... "you wanted to ask something?"
Sahaquiel Faust > Yes, I had a question regarding Tolerance:
Jade Constantine > go right ahead
Mikael Angelo > looks over at Literia with a smile "Lit, doing alright?"
Sahaquiel Faust > What's the point of tolerating a culture that is openly hostile to the freedoms and rights one may have?
Jade Constantine > do we tolerate cultures?
Sahaquiel Faust > I don't know.
Jade Constantine > or is it more about tolerating individuals
Sahaquiel Faust > allow me to rephrase then
Jade Constantine > who happen to be educated in various ways
Literia > nods her head slowly "Yah, I just learnt that my views are not tolderated. So I am just being quiet."
Nor Tzestu > As a member of the "darkest of cultures" while I find your speech enlightening to a degree. I must say your theory of achieving said peace at best a stopgap. No lasting change ever comes with something as fleeting as the moving of isk.
Sahaquiel Faust > would you be willing to tolerate an individual that would like nothing more than to see you subjugated?
Jade Constantine > let me address m. Nor first
Sahaquiel Faust > nods.
Nor Tzestu > The mere fact you could not refrain from insulting other cultures really show me how empty your words are.
Jade Constantine > take the example I gave in the speech m. Nor
Nor Tzestu > which example m'lady?
Jade Constantine > the chief argument between me personally and the Amarrian Empire (and those entities that swear loyality to the amarrian regime) is slavery
Jade Constantine > isk in this instance
Jade Constantine > and the provision of foodstuffs through increased automation of mass farming
Jade Constantine > removes the economic imperative
Jade Constantine > to keep vast populations of slaves
Nor Tzestu > Yes, for those holders who are motivated in that practice for monetary gain I suppose it would.
Jade Constantine > prosperity in this case can usher out an dark practise
Jade Constantine > well your own organization
Jade Constantine > the CVA
Jade Constantine > there are leaders and officers of the CVA
Jade Constantine > who have told me on occasion it is their desire to move their organizations reputation away from being slavers
Jade Constantine > they would prefer to be seen as NRDS free traders and commercially progressive developers on the frontier
Jade Constantine > that would be a huge step forward
Jade Constantine > and part of that motivation is prosperity
Merdaneth > I feel we are moving towards discussing the SF agenda rather than tolerance.
Jade Constantine > this is one of those extremely simple things I spoke of at the beginning
Literia > shakes her head
Merdaneth > Hence my question in an attempt to get back to the subject.
that randomguy Uitoh > the cultural aspect of slavery in the amarrian culture has become a major centerpoint for most arguments in every debate i've seen, if the slavery is such a problem, and such an insulting thing to YoUR culture, just ignore it
Graelyn > Moving towards? We've been docked at that station for 20 minutes.....
Merdaneth > My question to ms. Constantine is simple: would you tolerate a thing that you didn't agree with, but dioesn't directly affect you negatively yourself? Why, or why not?
Jade Constantine > I will answer you next okay?
Jade Constantine > (after m. Faust)
Jade Constantine > Sahaquiel Faust > What's the point of tolerating a culture that is openly hostile to the freedoms and rights one may have?
Jade Constantine > Sahaquiel Faust > would you be willing to tolerate an individual that would like nothing more than to see you subjugated?
Jade Constantine > my direct answer to this is "no"
Jade Constantine > one cannot tolerate such a thing
Sahaquiel Faust > well, that's unusually succinnct.
Jade Constantine > smiles "I'm happy you think so"
Jade Constantine > now then to Merdaneth
Jade Constantine > Merdaneth > My question to ms. Constantine is simple: would you tolerate a thing that you didn't agree with, but doesn't directly affect you negatively yourself? Why, or why not?
Jade Constantine > the problem with the question as stated is the devil in the details of the words "directly affect"
Merdaneth > My opinion on the S. Faust dilemma: I would be willing to tolerate such a thing, if not tolerating it would cause more harm.
that randomguy Uitoh > well, considering that most of us hate each other with an undying passion... what do you say we all get together and have a bowl of soup? you know? i love soup...
Jade Constantine > it is easy to argue theoretical affects
that randomguy Uitoh > or is it soop? i have no idea...
Jade Constantine > One might say that they have been affected by the loss of a great thinker or musical genius or artist who would have risen to prominance in the galaxy
Jade Constantine > where it not they were born in bondage on Amarr Prime
Jade Constantine > so I think the question is a difficult one to answer in any kind of honesty Merdaneth
Jade Constantine > I think you need to break it down
Graelyn > stands
Tamur Theorabies > looks at Graelyn. > I must say that it is one can use theoretical models as approximations to reality.
Literia > Are you arguing Slavery now?
Graelyn > Despite feeling like I've just watched a half hour of propoganda.....
Nor Tzestu > is there ever any other argument?
Victoria Valadeus > Hmph.
Graelyn > ....I do think I understamd Ms. Constantine's motivations, at their core, more clearly.
Literia > Yes there is
Victoria Valadeus > I stopped listening halfway
Jade Constantine > out of interest what do you perceive of my motivations m. Graelyn ? I am genuinely curious
Literia > I was born a slave, and I learned tolerance and acceptance of it not the blame the whole for the few.
Graelyn > I see them as tragic, really.
Merdaneth > The essence of the matter is this: I'm not willing to tolerate what I perceive as harm being doing to others, essentially harm to the society, even though tolerated act does not affect me, and not tolerating it could actually harm me.
Literia > stands up "Excuse me, I am done with my propaganda fill for the day."
Nor Tzestu > I see wisdom in your words literia.
that randomguy Uitoh > the views here are like night and day Jade, i believe that warfare is occasionally necassary to come to a form of tolerance of each other. although warfare is a savage beast, what lies afterward might be worthwhile in the end
Graelyn > You seek to create something that cannot exist on a material plane...but you are willing to break down 'any walls' to get at it.
Graelyn > It puts certain events in perspective.
Jade Constantine > what is it you believe I seek that is not possible to achieve ?
Literia > People disreguard me becuase I havent been in space for decades, but yet they know me not. This is not tolerance, this is blanket mindless hatered. *She slips into the aisle way and starts to make her away out*
Karmilla Strife > watches Literia leave with a look of concern.
Sahaquiel Faust > gets up and leaves quietly.
Graelyn > Can you tell me of a place where it even began to be achieved? I know of two.
Graelyn > One you helped tear down. One that was torn from under your feet. Both by the same law, defied at the cost of it's doom.
that randomguy Uitoh > *sniffles
Graelyn > Free trade and prosperity requires order and safety.
Tamur Theorabies > nods.
Graelyn > Anyone not benefitting from this order sees tyranny, and resists it.
Jade Constantine > does that require autocracy and suspension of individual rights though Graelyn?
Nor Tzestu > claps loudly for the Cardinal.
Graelyn > Order?
that randomguy Uitoh > protection is something that all free people deserve, but their rights should not be stripped from them in return
Jade Constantine > the irony is that many of the seeds that let to the latter being "burned down" were planted by the nature of political corruption employed
Jade Constantine > the problem with absolute autocracy is somebody at the top inevitably becomes corrupted
Graelyn > Order, by definition, costs freedom.
Jade Constantine > by the power granted
Jade Constantine > well
that randomguy Uitoh > that is not true
Graelyn > It should not be a total cost, no.
Jade Constantine > we cite two examples here Graelyn
Literia > stops at the door as she turns around "And who defines Freedom?"
Jade Constantine > one was my failure certainly
Graelyn > turns "Who indeed."
Jade Constantine > and one was "yours"
Victoria Valadeus > I believe the problem here is that some of us don't really agree with your premise, ma'am. The idea of "individual rights" is a very Gallentean one, and not all of us really agree on what constitutes an individual right.
Jade Constantine > can we learn something by considering both together?
Tamur Theorabies > smiles at Literia, and waves her to take a seat again.
Graelyn > encourages Jade to speak with a gesture
Jade Constantine > well Literia
Jade Constantine > we each do surely
Jade Constantine > by living as we please and think best
Literia > Exactly
Literia > Is it not oppression to force your ideals on someone else if they dont agree with yours?
that randomguy Uitoh > at Jade: living as we please does require some sort of boundry though
that randomguy Uitoh > complete anarchy is an uncontrolable chaos
Jade Constantine > well Literia, who is forcing ideals really and how do they force them ?
Jade Constantine > how do you think I "force ideals" ?
Nor Tzestu > Your a admitted terrorist. You force your ideals with gunfire.
Graelyn > watches his point go floating out of the room, he looks disappointed, and sits
Literia > I never said you Ma'am, it is a general questions.
Nor Tzestu > Your point is not lost Cardinal. Providence still stands.
Literia > And I am a member of the Cartel. Does organizations really make any difference?
Karmilla Strife > turns to Nor. "Lets not insult anyone brother. I'm an admitted crusader after all and enforce our ideals with gunfire."
Literia > Just because you belong to an Organization doesnt mean you follow every last ideal.
Jade Constantine > I'm trying to gather my thoughts on your question actually Graelyn
Nor Tzestu > Not an insult sister. A mere statement of fact.
Karmilla Strife > nods.
Jade Constantine > - Nor Tzestu
Jade Constantine > that can be a quite fine point to argue
Graelyn > No need, Ms. Constantine. I think we are several AU off of the purported path of this conference as it is.
Jade Constantine > would you say a prisoner forces his ideals on society by attempting to escape a prison ?
Graelyn > We can yell at each other later. We have all eternity for that.

[Tamur Theorabies]

Tamur Theorabies > Dear Ladies and Gentlemen...
Tamur Theorabies > I'd like to ask your attention..
Tamur Theorabies > I would like to say a few words about the Meaning of Tolerance.
Tamur Theorabies > Namely... a harmonious world of tomorrow relies on our continuous and quotidian undertakings and self-expression.
Tamur Theorabies > It is pivotal for every one of us to demand a solid meaning to the concept of tolerance.
Tamur Theorabies > So how do we actually define this word?
Victoria Valadeus > peers at Tamur with skepticism
Tamur Theorabies > Abstractly, tolerance can be "the act of recognizing and respecting deviations from specified values of a cultural dimensions."
Tamur Theorabies > takes a long look at the audience and smiles. > Abstract words, aren't they?
Tamur Theorabies > wipes out the smile > By dictionary, tolerance is also the capacity to endure hardship or pain.
Tamur Theorabies > This is the key.
Tamur Theorabies > reads > The Scriptures say "Only through many hardships, Is a man stripped to his very foundations"
Tamur Theorabies > continues > "And in such a state, Devoid of distractions, Is his soul free to soar"
Tamur Theorabies > So if one endures many hardships, one must have the capacity to endure them.
Tamur Theorabies > In such a state our souls are free to soar!
Victoria Valadeus > blinks
Graelyn > ponders
Tamur Theorabies > We must realize that our capacity to respect each and every individual is the moral framework for safety, family, intercultural exchange of ideas and universal peace.
Victoria Valadeus > mutters something about "More Gallentean nonsense" to her neighbors
Tamur Theorabies > Let us act as role models of tolerance in our corporations and alliances,
Tamur Theorabies > in our quarters and hangars, and ultimately, in our bodies and souls.
Tamur Theorabies > I want to end this with a quote...
Tamur Theorabies > reads from a scroll of Scriptures > "We are brothers,' Zakara answered, just before breathing his last. 'And in God we shall remain brothers for all of time."
Tamur Theorabies > Thank you for your attention!
Graelyn > applauds
Literia > stands at the back of the room with her arms crosses
Victoria Valadeus > applauds along with Graelyn
Jade Constantine > thinking about the statements carefully and pondering the meaning of endurance and tolerance juxtaposed in that way
Literia > You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.
Nor Tzestu > I would bid anyone who wishes to see tolerance in action, come to Providence.
Nor Tzestu > Tolerance is easy to orate about, yet difficult to practice.
Jade Constantine > will you be tolerant of my ship monsieur Tzestu, I would promise not to fire on any of yours for the occasion
Tamur Theorabies > nods > Thank you for the invitation Lord Tzestu. Concrete actions are much appreciated.
Nor Tzestu > Of course not, not while you remain an enemy of tolerance and enforce your ideals with violence.
Merdaneth > What kind of ship would that be ms. Constantine, an unarmed one?
Nor Tzestu > We have a duty to all who come to Providence in peace to keep the peace. Actions my lady, not words.
Literia > gives a two finger salute and then quietly slips out
Jade Constantine > how does one prove themselves other than an "enemy of tolerance" monsieur Tzestu?
Nor Tzestu > You could start by disavowing yoru assertion you are a terrorist.
Graelyn > waves to Literia
Jade Constantine > disavowing is an interesting term in this case
Nor Tzestu > Daily we practice what you so eloquently speak of.
Nor Tzestu > Is it?
Jade Constantine > do you not prefer simple honesty?
Nor Tzestu > If you are honestly a terrorist, then so be it. Expect no tolerance when you yourself are incapable fo such a practice.
Karmilla Strife > shakes her head sadly.
Nor Tzestu > Your words ring hollow to many here, As actions, not words are what effect change.
Jade Constantine > do you not see an NRDS engagement ideology as essentially "tolerant" monsieur Tzestu?
Nor Tzestu > Are you proclaiming the CVA is not bearing the brunt of said NRDS policy?
Jade Constantine > I simply asked a question
Nor Tzestu > I do see that as one step of tolerance, yes.
that randomguy Uitoh > i pilot will exploit loot wherever he can
Nor Tzestu > It is not a definition in and of itself.
that randomguy Uitoh > a*
Jade Constantine > and you would acknowledge that I am a remarkably "tolerant" terrorist ?
Nor Tzestu > You are correct sir.
Jade Constantine > since neutrals are never my targets
Nor Tzestu > I would not. Neutrals need nothing to exist. Your tolerance is defined by who you have set as red and why.
Jade Constantine > do you think it is "intolerant" then that I set people red for shooting at my ship?
Nor Tzestu > Obviously it depends on the who and why.
Jade Constantine > as I said
Jade Constantine > for shooting at my ship
Nor Tzestu > If things were so black and white, life would indeed be very easy.
Nor Tzestu > Why did they shoot at your ship?
Jade Constantine > usually for "tresspassing" within space they have claimed and I do not acknowledge belongs to them
Nor Tzestu > I can not possibly begin to give you an adequate answer. I consider myself educated, but the thought process of every capsuleer and alliance is beyond my scope.
Graelyn > rubs his temples softly
Jade Constantine > well I'm happy for you to conclude it is a complicated matter monsieur Tzestu (if you like)
Jade Constantine > certainly more complicated than your initial statement
Jade Constantine > Nor Tzestu > If you are honestly a terrorist, then so be it. Expect no tolerance when you yourself are incapable fo such a practice.
Jade Constantine > which I think we can both conclude now was quite inaccurate
Nor Tzestu > Conclude what you will.
Graelyn > I think I need a smoke. I'll return shortly.
Nor Tzestu > Your mind was made up before I uttered a word.
Jade Constantine > absolutely not
Graelyn > Or however long it takes to find a smoking area on a Gallente station....it's like finding a wormhole, I swear.....
Jade Constantine > hence I asked you the question I asked at the beginning
Nor Tzestu > chuckle at the cardinal.
Jade Constantine > Jade Constantine > will you be tolerant of my ship monsieur Tzestu, I would promise not to fire on any of yours for the occasion
Jade Constantine > I think it is a fair question
Karmilla Strife > turns to Tamur Theorabies. She speaks Gallentean with a slight Placid accent. "Thank you for your invitation Monsieur. It has been an interesting evening. I certainly applaud your efforts in making this event happen."
Nor Tzestu > That question was a diversion from the fact that Providence daily applies the principles you speak of through action. regardless of you think we as an entity deserve the area.
Tamur Theorabies > nods to Ms Strife > Thank you for your kind words.
Nor Tzestu > You ask if we allow terrorists as if it is some form of hypocrisy.
Jade Constantine > I would ask you not to put "thoughts" into my head while we are discussing with words
Jade Constantine > thats a little silly
Jade Constantine > we have come together to discuss the notion of tolerance
Jade Constantine > in context it provides a backdrop to our discussion quite appropriately
Karmilla Strife > bows her head slightly to Tamur and walks out.
Nor Tzestu > I must admit to a certain degree of hostility towards you due to the language of your speech. For that I apologize.
Jade Constantine > I appreciate that, it is sometimes difficult to express strongly held beliefs with appropriate equanimity but I am interested in exploring this question of tolerance where pertains to CVA government in Providence
Nor Tzestu > As I look through the faces here though. I see only you who is not welcome in Providence. And I wonder why that is.
Jade Constantine > why do you think that is ?
Nor Tzestu > I do not pretend to know.
Jade Constantine > you should take a guess perhaps ? you must have an opinion
Katrina Oniseki > smiles warmly, "Oh my. The (in)famous Jade Constantine! I've heard a lot about you. It's a pleasure to 'see' you, virtual as it may be."
Jade Constantine > nice to meet you too ms. Oniseki!
Nor Tzestu > Opinion? Likely for your thoughts on the empire. I would ask you though, how many here do you have set below neutral?
Katrina Oniseki > bows her head politely, "I'll have to pull you aside some day and listen to your theories on the Four Empires in person. You were once featured in a Current Events class back at the War Academy. Quite interesting."
Jade Constantine > The CVA pilots and KOTMC pilots ms. Tzestu
Jade Constantine > smiles at ms. Oniseki's remembrance of the current events class .. "I'd like that"
Nor Tzestu > I see.
Nor Tzestu > And how would you propose we move past our differences? Surely it can not be a matter of Isk alone.
Jade Constantine > see this is actually an interesting issue of tolerance in practise m. Tzestu - in all the times I have fought CVA in providence we have been very careful to respect (tolerate) the neutrality of your other guest pilots and corporations in the region
Jade Constantine > well to your question
Jade Constantine > I would like to see CVA move past its history as a pro-slaving entity and concentrate purely on commercial development in providence - as such I could definitely respect the move and would strongly counsel my comrades to consider a reset of negative
Jade Constantine > standings
Tamur Theorabies > This is very interesting.
Nor Tzestu > Very.
Jade Constantine > as I said to Graelyn at the beginning, sometimes these things are actually very simple indeed
Nor Tzestu > SImple in theory. In practice though you will find many slaves who are content to remain so. How would you propose that issue be dealt with?
Nor Tzestu > Not all are "beasts of burden"
Jade Constantine > total ammesty offered to all slaves anyone who wants to leave gets a free pass out and back to the republic - any who wish to remain as servants of their house do so
Jade Constantine > again it is not complicated
Victoria Valadeus > sighs > Yes it is.
Nor Tzestu > Not trying to make it so, simplu clarifying.
Katrina Oniseki > taps her chin, "I recall discussing the economic impact of a mass exodus of slaves following any sort of blanket emancipation. I argued the theory that the Empire relies heavily on slave labor across almost all facets of its economy, and a loss o...
Katrina Oniseki > of the workforce in that extreme would cause dire consequences."
Nor Tzestu > Your argument is flwed at best. If you believe the majority of slaves are held for labor alone then your in need of further research.
Katrina Oniseki > nods at that, "Perhaps, yes. I haven't spent much time in the Empire."
Jade Constantine > in this instance I'm speaking purely of CVA's holding of slaves of course - since I think we're discussing what would be needed for CVA's work in providence to become the kind of project that could receive universal acclaim from free-spacers
Nor Tzestu > Candidly, we will continue to have enemies simply because of our race. I know of several factions who would continue aggression if ever slave in the entire empire was released. Some people simply can't be reasoned with.
Katrina Oniseki > Some people don't care about your slaves anymore. It's become a personal problem with CVA itself.
Jade Constantine > those people are not Star Fraction
Katrina Oniseki > adds, "For them, I mean."
Jade Constantine > candidately I have always had a lot of respect for the project of settlement in providence - it has been a tragedy that it was marred by the slave-ownership and was never something I could support ideologically
Jade Constantine > this amongst other reasons was why in the fall of CVA last year we opted not to steal one of your stations but to build our own to show we could achieve as much as your individual corporations had with our investment and labour
Nor Tzestu > There in lies the rub. Your attempting to effect change through confrontation only leads to defensivenes. We do good every day in Providence. Could more be done? Obviously.
Jade Constantine > there is an issue of foundations though
Jade Constantine > the problem was the foundation was built on a corrupt system of slave labour
Jade Constantine > and pointlessly so
Jade Constantine > the capsuleers of the CVA are successful and prosperous commercial agents
Jade Constantine > they could easily be a reforming movement
Jade Constantine > that shows the empire how it can develop and modernize and leave behind the detritus of the past
Jade Constantine > and liberate those victims of cloying regressive faith
Jade Constantine > it just takes a small matter of willpower and change
Victoria Valadeus > "Cloying regressive faith"?
Jade Constantine > take the leap your emperors and empresses have considered and lead
Jade Constantine > well
Tamur Theorabies > frowns.
Jade Constantine > the aspect of Amarrian faith
Jade Constantine > that believes in slavery
Victoria Valadeus > frowns
Jade Constantine > is regressive
Victoria Valadeus > Do you know anything about the Amarrian faith?
John Revenent > Saisieni
Victoria Valadeus > I begin to think not.
Jade Constantine > why do you think that ?
Victoria Valadeus > Your words.
Victoria Valadeus > Your attitude.
Jade Constantine > because I believe nothing good comes from the reliance on slavery?
Tamur Theorabies > nods at Admiral Revenent.
Victoria Valadeus > Because you speak about it in ignorance of its theological and historical roots.
Jade Constantine > are you one of those who justifies the use of slavery Victoria ?
Victoria Valadeus > chuckles
Victoria Valadeus > No.
Jade Constantine > then I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about
Jade Constantine > I respect your right to believe what you choose
Jade Constantine > and seek spirituality that best serves you
Victoria Valadeus > Your disdain for my beliefs is palpable, Ms. Constantine.
Jade Constantine > if it does not involve the debasement of human life then we have no issue
Nor Tzestu > Since you wish to disscuss theology, with a member of the Clergy no less. Care to give some proof of the slavery practice rooted in our religion?
Victoria Valadeus > Spirituality that serves the self is abhorrent, Ms. Constantine.
Victoria Valadeus > We serve spirituality, not the other way around.
Jade Constantine > I will refer the answer to that question to the very many public works of the PIE Archbishop on the subject m. Tzestu
James Syagrius > raises an eyebrow. Disagreement is not distain, Ms. Constantine's point holds. The Faith is the stated underpinning of the institution.
Victoria Valadeus > Slavery as it is intended, I believe can be a force for good. But I do not believe that the Empire for the most part uses slavery in its intended form.
Jade Constantine > who seems to believe it is the Amarrian "purpose" to educate slaves in the religion
Tamur Theorabies > starts walking closer to the podium.
Victoria Valadeus > It is the Amarrian purpose to educate in the service of God. Slavery is intended as the vehicle to that aim. When used righteously it can do that. But the sinful nature of man makes that the exception rather than the norm.
Jade Constantine > as I said Victoria - your faith and spirituality is your affair - as long as it does not demand the subjegation and debasement of human life then I respect your right to believe whatever you see fit
Nor Tzestu > I will put this bluntly. The passage in the Scripture's you refer to is open to interpretation. Not all believe slavery is it's intended point.
Victoria Valadeus > Indeed, Mr. Tzestu.
Tamur Theorabies > Dear ladies and the gentlemen, I'm happy because it seems we have made some progress here.
Victoria Valadeus > In liberal circles it is not uncommon to consider the current state-sanctioned slavery to have no Scriptural basis whatsoever.
Graelyn > re-enters
Nor Tzestu > Indeed.
Tamur Theorabies > It's much more clear now what is meant by "Tolerance".
Nor Tzestu > nods to the Cardinal.
Tamur Theorabies > I'd like to take this opportunity to say a few words about immigration and acculturation issues.
Tamur Theorabies > Namely, Tolle V, where I was born, had a mixture of various races.
Tamur Theorabies > There were Gallenteans, Intakis, Jin-Meis, Mannars, Caldari, Minmatars... people from all sorts of backgrounds.
Tamur Theorabies > That place sure had lots of immigrants, all over the place.
Tamur Theorabies > One thing I can say for sure is that people with Amarr roots were the ones who were faced with the most severe prejudices.
Tamur Theorabies > At best, one would infer from the small remarks and gestures, that we were persona non-grata.
Tamur Theorabies > Often there was outright name calling, ostracizing, shunning.
Victoria Valadeus > listens a bit more keenly than she has thus far, genuinely interested
Tamur Theorabies > You can imagine that wasn't not a good environment to be.
Tamur Theorabies > For that reason we preferred to stay on our own outpost in Aydoteux.
Tamur Theorabies > We just tried to do our own thing, without caring about the unfriendly, unwelcoming atmosphere.
Tamur Theorabies > Later on, when I started my political career, I was faced with similar issues.
Tamur Theorabies > Some former collaborators of our party turned away.
Tamur Theorabies > Many times my background and faith were questioned, even laughed at.
Tamur Theorabies > It makes me wonder, why do we want to live like this?
Tamur Theorabies > I challenge all the captains to consider, what could we do individually to change things for the better?
Tamur Theorabies > A splash of understanding and positive attitude would help a lot.
Tamur Theorabies > Maybe even an apology for the people of Amarr roots who have always had it tough!
James Syagrius > disconnects
Victoria Valadeus > Judge a person by their actions, if you must judge at all. But that's on an individual level.
Tamur Theorabies > The Scriptures say "For forty millennia we struggled in the desert. Time of infinity to grief our misgivings."
Tamur Theorabies > I think now it's the time to forget the past animosities and take a step forward.
Tamur Theorabies > Let's all give a big hand to the Amarrians!
Tamur Theorabies > starts applauding.
Victoria Valadeus > chuckles and applauds, despite herself
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > Thank you, thank you all!
Jade Constantine > truth be told amongst the free captains issues of individual faith are rarely a problem. People worship as they please, engage with spirituality as they see fit, it is considered one more aspect of individual sovereignty over which no external
Jade Constantine > organization has a right to pass judgement
Jade Constantine > if you do not challenge another's personal freedoms it is right to expect no challenge in return
Jade Constantine > that I think is tolerance
Graelyn > Perhaps, Ms. Constantine, we'd all be better off if you didn't think this conference was a Star Fraction infomercial??
Graelyn > Good Lord, I'm trying my damndest to be civil here.
Jade Constantine > m. Theorabies asked a question
Graelyn > But Kador's Balls, you can drive the penitent to sin.
Jade Constantine > I simply answered as I saw appropriate
Victoria Valadeus > chuckles at Graelyn's remarks
Graelyn > sighs and calms down
Jade Constantine > raises from her seat and looks around "do we have any refreshments to break up the mood perchance?"
Graelyn > Great idea.
Victoria Valadeus > Tea please, as long as its not mint.
Jade Constantine > cheer up Graelyn, you are doing very well, I'm exceedingly impressed *grins* anyone else for tea?
Tamur Theorabies > waves the tea sign to the Janitors.
Nor Tzestu > Rises. You will have to pardon my absence for several minutes as I have matter to attend to I have been putting off.
Graelyn > raises a hand "Gladly."
Tamur Theorabies > Or course, Mr Tzestu.
Tamur Theorabies > Welcome back soon.
Tamur Theorabies > So concrete suggestions how to best improve intercultural exchange and tolerance would now be most welcomed.
Jade Constantine > accepts a cup of tea with a smile "m. Theorabies we were to send our donations care of a m. Bastian Valoron correct? I have to say he has an extremely disquieting beard!"
Jade Constantine > mustache even
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > He has a tendency to indulge in such things, yes.
Jade Constantine > oh well, I cabled him 100m isk by way of a supportive gesture from the Fraction
Jade Constantine > will buy quite a few frigates and about 1/10th of a pair of boots
Tamur Theorabies > smiles > Thank you for your kind gesture.
Tamur Theorabies > We will use it to save lives and continue our charity work.
Jade Constantine > say what you will about Amarrian culture but I can't really get behind Noble Exchange pricing!
Graelyn > groans
Victoria Valadeus > laughs
Victoria Valadeus > What do the Amarr have to do with that?
Graelyn > Well....
Graelyn > It is one of our companies.....
Victoria Valadeus > It is?
Graelyn > Not exactly a point of pride.
Victoria Valadeus > Figures.
Jade Constantine > Personally I prefer to planetside and fill my cargo bay with baseline boots for 1 isk
Jade Constantine > but *shrugs*
Jade Constantine > those whacky rich eccentrics
Graelyn > It's a store for people who need something besides their reputations, or actions, to have pride in.
Graelyn > But that's just my take.
Jade Constantine > I think after eight years you and I have finally found something to agree on
Graelyn > Well, these are dark times.
Jade Constantine > wild and strange times
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > That is very true.
Victoria Valadeus > chuckles
Jade Constantine > discovering my cousins Titan is worth about 20 sets of tailored capsuleer clothing was a bit of a shock!
Graelyn > It's all very silly.
Jade Constantine > I think Aria Jenneth might categorize it as a baseline plot to ruin the capsuleer caste by bankrupting our war capacity with designer jeans
Victoria Valadeus > They lowered the prices a bit but its all still too much for me. Too many zeroes.
Jade Constantine > I did laugh at Vaari excommunicating the NeX shop
Graelyn > groans at the metion of Vaari
Victoria Valadeus > Yes but there's just so many things to laugh at Vaari for.
Jade Constantine > oh come on, you have to admit he is great entertainment on the summit
Victoria Valadeus > Mostly its sad, to me
Graelyn > CVA and I fued on the subject.
Graelyn > *Feud
Graelyn > Often.
Victoria Valadeus > I consider it bad taste to laugh at the mentally handicapped.
Nor Tzestu > Polarizing is how I think of Vaari.
Jade Constantine > he seems a bit "god-touched" is the polite way to put it
Graelyn > Mmm.
Victoria Valadeus > God-touched, yes.
Victoria Valadeus > Perhaps.
Morwen Lagann > When Vaari is funny, he's hilarious... but when he's not, you just want to tie him up, gag him, and lock him in a tiny closet.
Victoria Valadeus > Who is the next speaker, by the way?
Graelyn > I'm not sure.....
Victoria Valadeus > shrugs and sips her tea
Graelyn > I'll probably have to miss it. I do have some other appointments today.
Graelyn > In fact, I should probably get back to the hangars.
Victoria Valadeus > Well I'll be sad to see you go, Cardinal.
Graelyn > I'm sure we'll all see each other around.
Victoria Valadeus > waves
Graelyn > It's a remarkably small universe, it turns out.
Graelyn > finishes his tea and sets off
Graelyn > So Long, Fly Strong.
Tamur Theorabies > nods to Graelyn. > You too.
Tamur Theorabies > waves to Dr. Doyle. > Good to see you here.
Tamur Theorabies > sips some tea.
Nola Doyle > Hello all.
Tamur Theorabies > approaches the podium.
Tamur Theorabies > I want to introduce Dr. Nola Doyle, the CO-CEO, Director of Research and Development of NeuroGen.
Nola Doyle > approaches the podium with a datapad in hand, smiling to Tamur.
Nola Doyle > clears her throat as she begins to address the audience.
Nola Doyle > "I have been asked by Mr. Theorabies to address you, my capsule peers and baseline counterparts, on the subject of tolerance. What is tolerance? What does it mean to posses the attribute of a tolerant individual?"
Nola Doyle > "To what extent does one become intolerant? The very subject and its meaning is as contentious and divisive as the questions posed, and in a diverse audience one may reach infinite conclusions."
Nola Doyle > "As an engineer and a scientist, I am most acquianted with the term in its definition as a permitted variation in some measurement or characteristic of an object or workpiece."
Nola Doyle > "Our hardest alloys and most impenetrable substances can become as brittle as clay when pushed beyond their tolerance. Despite our endurance in the most hostile of climates, as complex and adaptive as humanity is, even we have our limitations."
Nola Doyle > "Understanding the tolerance of objects and people around us gives valuable insight into the decision made process. It is not something to be feared, rather, I insist that we must know our limits if we are to set our sights to something higher."
Nola Doyle > clears her throat, "In the mind and the realm of thought, humanity s gift for innovation and creativity is nearly infinite."
Nola Doyle > "If one could contain all art from all cultures in a single room, you would find enough variation in the concept to study for several lifetimes and still only scratch the surface."
Nola Doyle > "Yet in this infinite selection, I could guarantee that almost any person would find at least one piece that they felt lacked the characteristics of true art."
Nola Doyle > gestures casually, "Perhaps the piece is too round, too green, or simply lacking the depth of its counterparts. It is in our gift for creativity that we are counterbalanced with the curse of perception."
Nola Doyle > "The mind interprets the various sensory inputs from its surroundings, derives an appropriate course of action, and engages with variable efficiency."
Nola Doyle > "Provided the chosen action met the satisfactory level of tolerance to survive the encounter, memory of the experience provides us a base comparison from which to adjust future actions with greater effectiveness."
Nola Doyle > "This method of progress has served our kind well, and allowed us to evolve and develop to become the dominant species in our tiny cluster of stars known as New Eden."
Nola Doyle > "Let us consider the impact of tolerance on the capsuleer subculture in relation to death. For the baseline population lacking a fresh clone in reserve for that fatal accident in space, the concept of death is beyond most individual s tolerance."
Nola Doyle > "To cease the life functions of another is a grave act worthy of harsh punishment, yet to us it is merely an inconvenience or simply a financial burden. "
Nola Doyle > "CONCORD does not punish us for murder, but the inconvenience of uncontrolled aggression amidst its patrolled space lanes."
Nola Doyle > "I present this notion to you as both a warning and potential, that we still possess the capacity for change for better or worse."
Nola Doyle > "The tenets of science are streamlined for the adaptability of men, to perceive and engage with an open mind, yet derive an optimum conclusion."
Nola Doyle > "As a scientist, the persistence of gravity on Luminaire does not have an effect on me because I believe it true, but through empirical evidence of tossing a rock from a cliff edge, only to watch it plunge into the ocean."
Nola Doyle > "Nor does propeling a piece of scordite into the depths of space somehow disprove the existence of gravity, one must account for circumstance and make a reasoned conclusion based on the variables present."
Nola Doyle > "The possibility of an omnipotent deity does not incite fear in a scientist, but inspires us to pursue greater understanding in the hope that one day a quantifiable answer can be achieved."
Nola Doyle > "It is our solemn duty to approach ignorance and blindness with courage, to face down stupidity and riposte with reason and intellect. Tolerance is the vital lynchpin to achieving enlightenment and building greater understanding between our fellow men."
Nola Doyle > clears her throat, "Thank you for your time."
Katrina Oniseki > claps respectfully, quite impressed by the speech.
Tamur Theorabies > stands up and applauds.
John Revenent > applauds
Victoria Valadeus > applauds and stands, also impressed
Sapphire Mourningstar > applauds
Nor Tzestu > Claps loudly
Morwen Lagann > smiles, applauding.
Nola Doyle > blushes and quickly disappears from the podium.
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > Thank you for your most exciting initiatives. Understanding is truly the key to tolerance.
Tamur Theorabies > So, Dr. Doyle, when you said "The tenets of science are streamlined for the adaptability of men, to perceive and engage with an open mind, yet derive an optimum conclusion", what do you mean by the optimal conclusion?
Tamur Theorabies > Is that a reference to the Scriptures?
Nola Doyle > blinks, glancing about before speaking softly, "The correct answer rests in the individual making the answer."
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > Hmm, yes I would like so.
Nola Doyle > However, to answer your question...I would disagree. *smiles* I am not Amarrian.
Tamur Theorabies > I guess one can say that science can make us all a bit puzzled sometimes.
Nola Doyle > It presents us with as many questions as answers, sir.
Tamur Theorabies > But it's good that there are some things which can be relied on.
Nola Doyle > raises a finger, "However, I should at that while science can build on our understanding of the universe, it should never be mistaken for truth or absolute. When we seek absolution in what is not, we form ideas on faith, not reality."
Nola Doyle > clears her throat, "I meant add, not at."
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > Exactly. There is a certain extent where the science works, but it cannot go beyond it.
Nola Doyle > smiles.
Nola Doyle > Might I inquire what your intent was behind this venture? It seems to have inspired some rather vitriolic sentiment from the community.
Morwen Lagann > Vitriol is an abundant commodity amongst capsuleers, unfortunately.
Tamur Theorabies > To put it simply, my purpose is to present a roadmap which would lead to universal peace.
Tamur Theorabies > The tolerance is the pathway, peace and unity are the goal.
Nola Doyle > nods with a smile, "A worthy goal, sir. I wholeheartedly support your endeavour."
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > Thank you for your support. I always have a high respect for the scientific point of view.
Nola Doyle > Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance to you, sir. I look forward to seeing future endeavors from your organization.
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > Thank you. I will definitely be in contact with you.
Nola Doyle > I must be off. I wish you success.
Tamur Theorabies > waves to Dr. Doyle.
Victoria Valadeus > Fly safe, Dr. Doyle.
Tamur Theorabies > goes back to the podium. > Dear capsuleers, everyone, there is now a great opportunity for free form discussion, or having a snack, as there is a gap in the program. The next scheduled speaker is going to start 22:00/10PM New Eden general time...
Victoria Valadeus > Who is the speaker?
Tamur Theorabies > Professor Alain Octirant, the head of the Federal Nationalist Party .
Victoria Valadeus > Interesting.
Tamur Theorabies > The title of his instructive talk will be "Matari Relations and the Matari choice"
Tamur Theorabies > Or more precisely "Federal - Matari Relations and the Matari choice."
Victoria Valadeus > Huh.
Victoria Valadeus > ....Sounds worrying.
Victoria Valadeus > I suppose I should be thankful its "Choice" and not "Solution"
Tamur Theorabies > nods. > Yes it does sound quite academical. I wonder from which angle he is going to study this issue.
Victoria Valadeus > Academical isn't the word I'd use.....
Victoria Valadeus > But I hope your assessment is more accurate than mine.
Tamur Theorabies > I hope so as well.

[Tamur Theorabies]

Maria Crases > re-enters smiling and comes up to Sapphire. "Mind if I sit here with you?"
Sapphire Mourningstar > Sure
Maria Crases > sits down
Sapphire Mourningstar > Good speech, Maria.
Maria Crases > Thank you sorry I had to rush off. Things happened
Sapphire Mourningstar > Not a problem, I may have to leave soon myself.
Maria Crases > awww
Sapphire Mourningstar > smiles > Although, I did get Kimmy a dress, so I might drag her to the Tower to meet you in person.
Maria Crases > thats cool, do you know who is speaking next?
Sapphire Mourningstar > No idea.
Tamur Theorabies > The next speaker will be Professor Alainn Octirant.
Tamur Theorabies > He is the leader of the Federal Nationalist Party and the title of his lecture will be "Federal - Matari Relations and the Matari choice."
Sapphire Mourningstar > That promises to be interesting
Maria Crases > I always thought those relations were a given all things considerred
Tamur Theorabies > He must have some new ideas, I would assume.
Maria Crases > Did you think what I said was too short? it lasted about 35 minutes so I'm not sure. Felt like forever up there
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > No worries, Ms. Crases. The audience seemed to be very pleased.
Sapphire Mourningstar > Brevity is a virtue, Maria
Maria Crases > well most of the people there were biased towards me but thank you
Maria Crases > Don't think Jade liked what I said to much
Victoria Valadeus > I don't think a lot of people liked what Jade said much, so I doubt that matters.
Maria Crases > giggles
Tamur Theorabies > nods.
Maria Crases > Well Mr Theorabies promised to record everything for me so I'll go over it later
Sapphire Mourningstar > smiles > Well, that's my cue. Take care, Maria.
Maria Crases > take care
Sapphire Mourningstar > walks out.
Maria Crases > takes out her data pad and messages a few people
Victoria Valadeus > exits the lecture hall
Katrina Oniseki > stands up and leaves.
Tamur Theorabies > walks near the podium.
Tamur Theorabies > Our next speaker, Professor Octirant has arrived.
Maria Crases > sits up
Tamur Theorabies > He is well-known for his insights on various matters. He has also fought the Caldari as a marine long time ago.
Tamur Theorabies > Indeed, the wars have been going on so long.
John Revenent > sits back in his chair and listens.
Tamur Theorabies > Is there ever going to be end to that?
Tamur Theorabies > I could imagine that if we just keep repeating the same old formula over and over again, nothing will change.
Alain Colcer > enters the hall and sees the audience, quietly takes a seat
Tamur Theorabies > In my opinion, identifying the challenges and pinpointing the best couses of action would be called for.
Tamur Theorabies > It might be a plausible way out of this maze of disagreements.
Tamur Theorabies > Because one can visualize it as a maze. There are many cul-de-sac's - after going endlessly to a certain direction, it may turn out that it doesn't lead anywhere.
Tamur Theorabies > It's a bit disappointing, isn't it?
Maria Crases > nods
Tamur Theorabies > But before I'll let you speak, Professor Octirant, I'd like to complete this maze metaphor.
Tamur Theorabies > Because even when you think the labyrinth is highly complicated and dark, there may be a passage you haven't thought before.
Tamur Theorabies > This passage may be the right one, it may hold some light at the end of the tunnel!
Tamur Theorabies > So that is the pathway we should be looking for.
Tamur Theorabies > There may be unexpected obstacles along the way, even dangers.
Tamur Theorabies > It may seem like we don't quite know where are we going.
Tamur Theorabies > But then, all of a sudden, there are more unopened doors behind the corner.
Tamur Theorabies > Doors we have never seem before. Where do they lead?
Tamur Theorabies > It is hard to say.
Alain Colcer > its a very poetic way to describe the challenges we face *smiles*
Tamur Theorabies > looks at Commander Colcer and smiles.
Tamur Theorabies > During my studies in the Royal Amarr Institute I used to walk around in the theological library.
Tamur Theorabies > It was very much like a maze as well.
Tamur Theorabies > Endless shelves full of knowledge.
Tamur Theorabies > I used to think that on the meta-level the meaning of it all was that getting lost can also be a learning experience.
Alain Colcer > if i may add to that idea, often in combat one may feel lost either to the enemy or to one's self doubts, learning to navigate through that is it indeed a learning experience
Alain Colcer > at least it has been for me
Tamur Theorabies > nods.
Tamur Theorabies > If one is lost to one's self doubts, then there is little hope left.
Tamur Theorabies > Before I let you to speak, Professor Octirant, I'd like to compare the concept of self doubts to the concept of tolerance.
Tamur Theorabies > What do they have in common? Can one have the both at the same time?
Tamur Theorabies > Are they possibly causally connected?
Tamur Theorabies > These are difficult questions which have puzzled sages for eons.
Tamur Theorabies > Today we have finally made some progress in answering these dilemmas.
Tamur Theorabies > We are getting closer to the point where the civilization of New Eden may reach the next level of understanding.
Tamur Theorabies > We can forget animosities and start looking for new challenges.
Tamur Theorabies > But we are not that far yet.
Tamur Theorabies > There are still a few issues which need fixing.
Tamur Theorabies > Like all the hate, intolerance, wars and other madness.
Tamur Theorabies > Like I said in the beginning of this conference, these are serious matters and need to be addressed accordingly.
Tamur Theorabies > We have had a few positive concrete suggestions this evening of how to actually accomplish all our goals.
Tamur Theorabies > I have a good feeling about this day.
Alain Octirant > clears his throat
Alain Octirant > Right
Alain Octirant > Sorry for the delay folks
Tamur Theorabies > nods to Prof. Octirant.
Alain Octirant > Are we ready?
Tamur Theorabies > I won't take more of your time, the podium is yours, Professor!
Alain Octirant > Federal-Matari relations and The Matari ChoiceBonsoir, Capsuleers, and to those reading this speech in a variety of media, Greetings.
Alain Octirant > My name is Professor Alain Octirant, and I am Chairman of the National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime. I spent my youth fighting for this Federation against its numerous enemies, before retiring to become a Professor of History.
Alain Octirant > But it is not my story I came to tell.
Alain Octirant > I want to begin my address by recounting to you the story of Veruct'ar. Veruct'ar is a Sebiestor. He grew up in Heimatar. His parents were freed slaves who had tried to make a life for themselves in the Republic. None of this is sounding too unfamiliar,
Alain Octirant > I dare say.
Alain Octirant > As he entered adulthood, it became clear that Veruct'ar was skilled at working with machines. His quick hands and sharp mind were not uncommon for people of his tribe and he was enrolled in the Tech School of Pator.
Alain Octirant > His parents had sacrificed a great deal for him to have this opportunity, and he would not waste it. He distinguished himself among his classmates as a technician, but he also demonstrated the skills to become a capsuleer.
Alain Octirant > He enrolled in the capsuleer program and proved adept at this as well. It was only a matter of time before Veruct'ar graduated from the school and was ready to make his way in New Eden.
Alain Octirant > It is argued that the capsule era has erased our borders. Veruct'ar found none between him and emigration to the Federation.
Alain Octirant > He made his way over to Sinq Laison, to the notorious capsuleer hangout of Dodixie. It is here that, like many immigrants, he volunteered to fight in the Federal Defence Union.
Alain Octirant > Like a number of heroes of the FDU, he served his adoptive nation with distinction. The Federation provided Veruct'ar with something not easily achievable elsewhere: a Ladder of Opportunity, one which he was free to climb, or not, as suited him.
Alain Octirant > This is a hallmark of Gallentean democracy, one which we have exported to our friends in the Republic, a people who we aided in their struggle for Freedom against the ravages o the Empire of Amarr,
Alain Octirant > A people who emigrate to the Federation in record numbers to climb the ladder of opportunity.
Alain Octirant > Despite this, despite success stories like Veruct ar s, Federal-Matari relations need further development. We are natural allies, who share the same system of government, the same desire to be free. The same forces are aligned to bring us down.
Alain Octirant > However, I see many young Matari turning away from the Gallente hand that is offered to them.
Alain Octirant > Take a man I recently became aware of, Korsavius. He is of the Brutor, a fierce tribe who submit to no master. I have it on good authority that he was bought as a slave by a Caldari, and subsequently freed by a Federal Navy Officer.
Alain Octirant > And, what does the man do now? He pioneers the insidious Cal-Matari movement from within the ranks of the Ishukone Corporations capsuleer wing, I-RED.
Alain Octirant > That s right, my friends, he works for the very people who illegally took away his freedom in the first place. In psychology, this is known as Ammatar Syndrome, the idea of coming to love one s enslaver, rather than the one who freed you.
Alain Octirant > looks directly at the camera
Alain Octirant > Make no mistake, sons and daughters of Matar - The Caldari are not your friends. They are collaborators with your dire enemy.
Alain Octirant > Your allies, your natural allies, are the free peoples of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime. Make the choice of Veruct ar, not of Korsavius.
Alain Octirant > inclines his head - Thank you for your time.
Tamur Theorabies > smiles, stands up and applauds.
John Revenent > arches a eyebrow.
Searaph > frowns and shakes his head
Alain Octirant > steps away from the podium and waves, smiling.
Sapphire Mourningstar > sighs.
Alain Colcer > strong words monsieur Octirant
Tamur Theorabies > "Does the audience have any questions?"
Searaph > nods, "Indeed, I do, atleast"
Sapphire Mourningstar > I have one for the genttleman.
Alain Octirant > Go ahead.
Sapphire Mourningstar > nods to Seraph.
Searaph > gestures to the young woman, "Ladies first"
Sapphire Mourningstar > okay.
Sapphire Mourningstar > There are many freed slaves living in the Empire, many of them leading productive lives, they are happy and content. Would the speaker suggest that they are some how damaged psychologically?
Alain Octirant > Yourself being an example, my dear lady?
Sapphire Mourningstar > Yes, sir.
Alain Octirant > And you would describe yourself as happy and content?
Sapphire Mourningstar > Yes sir. I would.
Maria Crases > smiles listening
Alain Octirant > What about your previous employment, with the Angel Cartel. Did that not make you happy?
Sapphire Mourningstar > narrows her eyes > No.
Alain Octirant > That is good. Too many Matari are turning to the Angel Cartel as an alternative.
Alain Octirant > I would say that in answer to your question;
Alain Octirant > That I cannot comment on particulars of individual cases.
Alain Octirant > But there are doubtless some cases in which what you say is true.
Sapphire Mourningstar > But you did suggest that in most cases that a freed slave who continued to associate with their previous owner would be wrong to do so, did you not?
Alain Octirant > I think it would be puzzling at the very least.
Tamur Theorabies > shakes head, rolls eyes.
Maria Crases > I do, I work for my holder
Sapphire Mourningstar > nods > very well, I yield the floor to the other gentleman.
Alain Octirant > looks at the Brutor.
Searaph > Professor, I was looking at your bio in the event program as you were speaking. We're here to talk about tolerance I understand? Your bio states you dont believe some sub-fraction of a majority can break off from the whole
Searaph > That's rebellion you say, not democracy. Im curious how you justify that
Alain Octirant > That is a very interesting question.
Alain Octirant > Before I answer, do you have nothing pertaining to the remarks I actually made today?
Searaph > In the interests of not causing offense, I'd have to say no
Alain Octirant > Very well. Those remarks were made in response to the campaign of the Intaki Liberation Front to separate the Intaki people from the Federation.
Alain Octirant > A move which is not mandated by the electorate or justified in any way.
Searaph > Surely the same applies to the Caldari, also, no?
Alain Octirant > A different situation - the majority of the Caldari supported the secession.
Searaph > But not the majority of the Federation. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you were trying to convey
Alain Octirant > But I would still argue that their secession was a mistake.
Alain Octirant > Perhaps.
Alain Colcer > if i may interrupt
Alain Octirant > By all means, General.
Alain Colcer > thank you
Alain Colcer > it is often argued that the majority is a better represantation of the electorate
Searaph > Generally by the majority
Alain Colcer > and it is perhaps the only "fair" way decide matters that affect large populations
Searaph > Fair to whom? The minorities that are forced to live according to how the majority would have them live, all the while harming no one, themselves?
Alain Colcer > however that does not eliminate the possibility a minority could be negatively affected by the choice made in such terms
Alain Colcer > monsieur searaph please let me finish the idea
Searaph > shurgs and listens
Alain Colcer > i am quite aware election and majorities are but imperfect tools
Alain Colcer > and the Federation is often struggling between allowing the majority to choose, but also being able to respond and answer to minorities who get negatively affected by the choices made
Alain Colcer > tolerance in this particular aspect
Alain Colcer > is often a two way interaction
Maria Crases > If I may?
Alain Colcer > both the majorities need to realize their actions will take precedence
Alain Colcer > but could affect many more than they realize
Alain Colcer > and the minorities need to understand their situation and handle it to the proper channels
Alain Colcer > thus
Alain Colcer > a catch-22 situation arises
Alain Colcer > and it is often the daily job of a lobbyst faction or a political party to take these situations and bring them forth to the local goverments and the senate
Alain Colcer > our goverment might not be perfect, but at least has the tools to allow people to channel their problems
Alain Colcer > thats all i have to say
Alain Octirant > If you'll permit me, General
Alain Octirant > I must apologise, my dear friends
Searaph > I believe the young lady over there had a comment, also
Alain Octirant > But I am needed elsewhere.
Alain Octirant > If there are additional questions for me.
Alain Octirant > I'm sure that the IGS would prove a fruitful venue.
Tamur Theorabies > Well we were glad to learn from your lectures, Mr Octirant.
Alain Colcer > nods > safe flying Monsieur Octirant
Alain Octirant > Thankyou, Chairman.
Maria Crases > claps in agreement
Alain Octirant > Adieu, General, Dear Ladies.
Tamur Theorabies > Fly safe, Professor.
Tamur Theorabies > nods to Ms Crases. > You had comments on General Colcer's remark?
Maria Crases > I was just thinking to add to an interesting point: The federation seems to reject the caldari state the same way they are rejecting the Amarrian faith project.
Maria Crases > I'm not saying anyone persay is guilty of anything but it seems the federation can't handle the idea of the freedom to give up freedom
Maria Crases > whcih both the Amarr and the Caldari practice in some shape or form
Alain Colcer > because its a contradiction in itself Madmoiselle
Maria Crases > that I'm away but freedom to forsake freedom is freedom and that persons right
Maria Crases > aslong as no one is getting hurt there shouldn't be an issue
Tamur Theorabies > Very well said, Ms Crases.
Tamur Theorabies > scans the audience > Are there further comments on this point?
Alain Colcer > not really, i do accept it is an unresolved argument and a heated topic of debate daily on the Federation, so i ackwnoledge it is present
Searaph > shrugs, "The point is you need to have the right to chose 'not' to no longer have freedom anymore"
Sapphire Mourningstar > I agree with the gentleman
Alain Colcer > nods > and that is exactly what the Caldari chose, they give up their personal freedoms to earn "collective" freedom and benefits
Alain Colcer > but citizens in the Federation value highly their personal freedom
Alain Colcer > so its not an easy balance
Maria Crases > Oh whats the music company called.... its in the federation
Alain Colcer > often you require to give up certain freedoms to earn certain benefits
Tamur Theorabies > Egonics?
Alain Colcer > Impetus is the main entertainment corporation though
Maria Crases > Yes I think so, they have so much data on people that the goverment stepped in saying it stepped on peoples rights but the people stood up and said the music company wasn't doing anything wrong and that they didn't mind
Maria Crases > So the goverment let them keep gathering intel the people were willing to give u[
Alain Colcer > smiles > good example, what if the device that feed music to your brainwaves was "suggesting" that line of thought ?
Alain Colcer > wouldnt that be a loss of personal freedom?
Maria Crases > I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules to everything but if the people say they don't mind having their rights removed the goverment has to accept that
Tamur Theorabies > smiles. > This is a good point to announce our next speaker.
Tamur Theorabies > She is a young Sebiestor from Knighthood of the Merciful Crown.
Tamur Theorabies > The podium is your, Ms Mourningstar!
Maria Crases > smiles clapping
Tamur Theorabies > takes a seat.
Sapphire Mourningstar > swallows and walks to the podium > Thank you, sir. One quick correction. I was adopted by Raze and Victoria Valadeus recently, and Concord apparently does not want to change my license.
Sapphire Mourningstar > I do not have a speech prepared, so please hang with me.
Sapphire Mourningstar > I'm not here to talk about the Empire, the Militia or anything like that.
Sapphire Mourningstar > What I want to say is that tolerance requires us to understand one point:
Sapphire Mourningstar > We are all people.
Sapphire Mourningstar > Each of us has worth.
Sapphire Mourningstar > Now before I collapse from nervousness, I am going to yield the floor.
Maria Crases > claps giggling
Tamur Theorabies > claps his hands.
Sapphire Mourningstar > blushes and hops down.
Alain Colcer > nods in approval
Tamur Theorabies > leaves his seat and goes back in front of the Auditorium.
Tamur Theorabies > Thank you Ms Valadeus.
Tamur Theorabies > We are running behind the schedule for 35 minutes.
Tamur Theorabies > But I'd like now to say a few words about how can we achieve all these goals we have been discussing.
Tamur Theorabies > I'd like to present some kind of a roadmap to harmonious co-existence.
Tamur Theorabies > During this evening, we have heard that intolerance has become alarmingly commonplace.
Tamur Theorabies > One may ask, why is that?
Tamur Theorabies > Obviously, if people had more in common, it would be easier to find common ground.
Tamur Theorabies > However, despite all wealth and prosperity, there are things that ISK cannot buy.
Tamur Theorabies > No matter how much prosperity and vanity you might have around you, you may still be craving for certain things. You may remain as an outsider.
Tamur Theorabies > One could ask, could there be some kind of an inferiority complex in the Federation?
Tamur Theorabies > So what then would be missing here?
Tamur Theorabies > Well as the head of the state we have President, but there is no embodiment of the state in the Federation.
Tamur Theorabies > Perhaps, for a nation to be happy and unified, it should have both?
Tamur Theorabies > What I'm indicating here is that the Federation might have a secret passion.
Tamur Theorabies > It would like to be a constitutional monarchy.
Alain Colcer > raises an eyebrow
Tamur Theorabies > Constitutional monarchy is a form of governance where the Crown can ensure that the democratically elected government is always in place.
Tamur Theorabies > The monarch reigns but doesn't rule.
Maria Crases > tilts her head listening
Tamur Theorabies > She can veto laws which are not in the best interest of the country.
Tamur Theorabies > Her signature would be needed for the appointment of the government officials and the President.
Tamur Theorabies > Dear audience: Empress Sarum is the harbinger of hope, the sword of the righteous.
Sapphire Mourningstar > is now paying close attention
Tamur Theorabies > What we give to the her, she shall give back unto us.
Tamur Theorabies > Under her reign, the Federation, the State and the holy Empire would all become one.
Tamur Theorabies > There would be no longer wars or petty disputes.
Tamur Theorabies > Reason and prosperity would prevail.
Tamur Theorabies > Already Emperor Heideran VII was envisioning a peace throughout the galaxy.
Tamur Theorabies > He was the champion of improved interstellar relations. Maybe now finally it is the time to realize the hopes and dreams of the past...
Tamur Theorabies > ...to ensure that peace and tranquillity will prevail, now and forever.
Tamur Theorabies > Thank you for your attention.
Tamur Theorabies > Now it's time for questions.
Searaph > shakes his head in disgust
Sapphire Mourningstar > I have one sir.
Maria Crases > looks over to Searaph. "Sir, does it really matter what people use for a goverment? as long as people are happy?"
Tamur Theorabies > Yes, Ms Valadeus?
Searaph > glances at the woman who just spoke and hold up a hand, subtly, indicating he'll reply after Sapphire asks her question
Sapphire Mourningstar > Firstly, I must say that was a bold statement. Secondly, under your plan, would the Amarrian religion be mandated in the State and Federation?
Tamur Theorabies > Thank you. Unfortunately all the details have not been worked out yet, so I cannot say anything specific on that, Ms Valadeus.
Sapphire Mourningstar > nods and turns to Searaph.
Searaph > I would quite vehemently disagree, regarding the type of government a people live under not mattering, so long as they are happy
Alain Colcer > Monsieur Theorabies, i must say its an outrage that a politician like you makes such statements
Searaph > Its not the job of any government to provide happiness for its people. Merely to protect their right to pursue it for themselves. Otherwise, stay out of the way
Maria Crases > I didn't say to provide happniess but let me putting it like so
Maria Crases > should it matter if a nation or empire has a king, dictator or council as long as its what the people want and are happy with.
Tamur Theorabies > says sadly. > Mr Colcer, if we just continue following the same path as always, the war will never end.
Tamur Theorabies > We need to change our way of thinking, accept new ideas.
Tamur Theorabies > Try something we haven't had courage to try before.
Alain Colcer > what you are suggesting goes against everything the garoun empire built in our past
Alain Colcer > everything the Federation has accomplished for the last century
Alain Colcer > we will not be accepted as equals to the amarrians
Alain Colcer > true amarr will become "holders" of our planets
Sapphire Mourningstar > coughs
Sapphire Mourningstar > May I point out something, please, Mr. Colcer?
Alain Colcer > would you allow something like that?
Maria Crases > The khanid once sat in that same chair now they are sacred equals. You can't assume the Amarrians just want to sit on people.
Alain Colcer > please Sapphire, i don't i can reason with Monsieur Tamur right now
Alain Colcer > i dont think eve
Alain Colcer > even*
Alain Colcer > is visible upset
Tamur Theorabies > If you look at the state, they have kept their identity while they are in close contact with the Empire.
Sapphire Mourningstar > What I was going to say, I was a slave, but am now the heir to the House Valadeus. I will myself be a holder one day
Alain Colcer > chuckles at the thought > yeah right, you might be a holder, but no true amarrian will treat you like an equal
Maria Crases > My former master does
Sapphire Mourningstar > You mean, aside from the ones that already do?
Maria Crases > rank aside
Tamur Theorabies > Mr Colcer, I believe nothing would be lost, on the contrary - the parts of a puzzle would finally come together.
Alain Colcer > I'm sorry we don't agree Tamur, i can see mysef following a President chosen by popular vote, i cannot follow a person chosen by a god and "tradition"
Alain Colcer > we may do business with the Amarrians
Alain Colcer > but True Amarr will never see us as equals, unless we acquire enlightment with their religion
Alain Colcer > thats not freedom of choice
Alain Colcer > and therefore it takes away personal liberties
Alain Colcer > will not submit to that, will prefer death to that
Maria Crases > I'm an Amarrian in the faith and they treat me well enough. My former master would see you as an equal
Tamur Theorabies > Today we have had a day full of presentations which show that actually the Amarr culture is not like many people assume.
Alain Colcer > i know its not really as inflexible and harsh as i expose it
Alain Colcer > but seriously, will they accept me if i say i don't believe in god?
Maria Crases > Yes
Searaph > Really? So what was the enslaving on my entire race about, then?
Tamur Theorabies > Just look at the State, they are accepted as well.
Searaph > The state are a strategic ally. They are not accepted. They're just third on the list
Alain Colcer > Madmoiselle Crases i think you are naive of your own people
Alain Colcer > oh wait
Maria Crases > Can I talk about my slavery then answer questions sir?
Alain Colcer > you are gallentean *just notices*
Maria Crases > looks at Tamur
Tamur Theorabies > Sure, Ms Crases
Maria Crases > smiles and goes up to the podium. "May as well do it offical like."
Maria Crases > turns to everyone. "I'll make the story brief so we can get to the issue."
Maria Crases > My parents were Serpentis taking a cruiser of drugs in Khanid low sec. I was with them one because they didn't trust their pirate brothers and two because a little girl the age of 5 on the roster made it look legit.
Maria Crases > Lord Marcase Crases was working to build relations with the navy for his cargo routes and assisted them where he could. He engaged the cruiser knowing it was running drugs and destroyed it. I was captured and taken to the Crases estate
Maria Crases > for the next 11 years I was raised by the amarrians as a handmaiden to Kithrus Marcases first born son. I was freed three months ago and have since done many things including see my parents last night
Maria Crases > I regret nothing of what happened to me.
Sapphire Mourningstar > blinks.
Maria Crases > My parents are and will always be evil and in a way I owe the Amarrians everything for the new and crime free upbringing they gave me
Maria Crases > So that said I will take questions
Searaph > I have a couple of questions, if no one else does, Miss Crases
Maria Crases > of course
Searaph > Im just curious, Im sort of presuming the answer to this is no, but you'll no doubt understand why I ask anyway
Searaph > Did your master ever beat you until you couldn't stand anymore, then demand you return to work, on pain of death?
Maria Crases > Marcas or Kithrus?
Searaph > Marcas
Maria Crases > Yes he did
Maria Crases > swallows
Searaph > And you think this was necessary to the whole experience? That you couldn't have become a productive member of society without it?
Alain Colcer > rolls eyes > this is getting sick
Maria Crases > of course but at the end of the day Marcas is a foul man but Kithrus is not. Both are of the same faith but one was wrong in that faith. In truth the faith forbids that
Searaph > Odd that it happens so often then, dont you think?
Maria Crases > It doesn't happen that often because its forbidden
Alain Colcer > oh for garoun's crown
Alain Colcer > this is beyond acceptable
Searaph > I dont believe you. But thank you for sharing your story, Miss. I hope your life from here on is pleasant and productibe
Maria Crases > believe me if a holder was caught raping or beating a slave to death they would be punished
Alain Colcer > this is a meeting about tolerance and we are discussing the past abuse of someone?
Maria Crases > but I will admit 'if' they are caught.
Tamur Theorabies > Exactly. Why don't we discuss about something more positive.
Searaph > Yes indeed. Whether we should tolerate a system that produces such abuse would seem highly relevant to a discussion on tolerance, no?
Tamur Theorabies > frowns > You are using strong language, Mr Searaph.
Maria Crases > The point I'm trying to make is the Amarrians do what they do because they belive themselves to be helping and often they do. I'm not saying mistakes are not made but they are not monsters
Alain Colcer > i can agree with that Searaph, but it is exactly this sort of behavior that the Empire allows that i can't approve
Searaph > Strong language?
Tamur Theorabies > There is no place in New Eden which didn't have something negative in it.
Maria Crases > steps down and sits
Tamur Theorabies > goes in front and smiles. > I want to thank the audience for the lively discussions.
Alain Colcer > Tamur, i respected you as a politician with a little more vision than the rest
Alain Colcer > i'm sorry but you are a deception
Alain Colcer > a fraud
Tamur Theorabies > frowns and continues > I feel that today we have taken giant leaps towards tolerance.
Searaph > smiles slightly in amusement, but nods in agreement
Alain Colcer > I'll speak with a few friends at the FIO
Tamur Theorabies > arches eyebrows
Tamur Theorabies > turns back to audience and smiles. > The atmosphere here has been productive and you all have been contributing to it.
Alain Colcer > i think its enough for me
Alain Colcer > stands up and quickly leaves
Alain Colcer > good luck in the Empire Tamur
Tamur Theorabies > If we continue along these lines next year, we can change the world.
Tamur Theorabies > Thank you again and I hope to see you YC114!
Tamur Theorabies > leaves the podium.
Searaph > glances at the rest of the audience, gauging their reaction
Maria Crases > shakes her head sadly
Sapphire Mourningstar > is stoic
Searaph > Miss Crases, may I have a word at your conveinience?
Maria Crases > oh... yes of course sir
Searaph > moves over to Maria and speaks quietly to her

[Tamur Theorabies]

The starting and ending times of the event were YC113.07.09, 13:38:55 and YC113.07.10 00:32:36, respectively.

Thank you for all the attendees!